tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post114204244599811258..comments2023-06-02T05:56:55.748-05:00Comments on Love Each Stone: Important Dialogue with Dr. Malcom Yarnell, SWBTS Theology ProfessorDavid Rogershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-1148046857959675172006-05-19T08:54:00.000-05:002006-05-19T08:54:00.000-05:00David, You are right on with your analysis. I do n...David, <BR/><BR/>You are right on with your analysis. I do not see what he is saying unless I look at his statements through political eyes, not theological. <BR/><BR/>Dr. Yarnell attends the same church pastored by Bob Pearle, IMB trustee. This church has as it members Paige Patterson, Emir Caner, and Keith Eitel. Seems interesting that the people speaking out so much against the current IMB president and their New Directions strategy all attend the same church. Yes they have a right to their opinion, no problem with that. But this also helps us see that his statements might be more political than theological. <BR/><BR/>IMO, those without a political agenda look at his arguments and see no "ecumenical ecclesiology". This seems like the tatics used by the Democrats. Throw out the accusation even if there is no evidence to support the claim. It may stick with some who choose not to examine the issues. Use certain buzz words to make a person look like a "liberal" ( Even though you are not) thus scaring others away. You carry a lot of influence with people and your ideas are clear. I think you also reflect what most Baptist think. <BR/><BR/>From the Baptist I have seen from a lay perspective, they can think for themselves and see that there are Christians outside of Baptist life who are truly followers of Jesus and fellow believers. They believe in Jesus and His salvation, are biblically baptized by immersion in the church, are inerrantist, are very conservative, and are our brothers, yet they are not Baptist. We all know this yet some in our seminaries seem to miss this point. Let me make clear, some not all. <BR/><BR/>Hang in there and watch your back. To me their concerns refelct their political views and they couch it all in theological terms to give it more value.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-1142214431797159112006-03-12T19:47:00.000-06:002006-03-12T19:47:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02873979131799051743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-1142147533239470512006-03-12T01:12:00.000-06:002006-03-12T01:12:00.000-06:00I find it rather distressing that Dr. Yarnell has ...I find it rather distressing that Dr. Yarnell has lots to say about other groups and their desire to fulfill the Great Commission but little to say about Southern Baptists themselves in this respect.<BR/><BR/>What would he think of a Southern Baptist church that had the following profile over a 4 year period?<BR/><BR/>2001<BR/>3506 members<BR/>203 baptisms<BR/>253 other additions<BR/>2200 primary worship attendance<BR/><BR/>2002<BR/>3812 members<BR/>296 baptisms<BR/>190 other additions<BR/>2100 primary worship attendance<BR/><BR/>2003<BR/>4011 members<BR/>209 baptisms<BR/>137 other additions<BR/>2031 primary worship attendance<BR/><BR/>2004<BR/>4163 members<BR/>237 baptisms<BR/>204 other additions<BR/>1874 primary worship attendance<BR/><BR/>Would this church meet anyone’s criteria for "declining?" It went from a counted Sunday morning worship attendance of 2200 in 2001 to 1874 in 2004. If my math is correct, that is a 15% decline.<BR/><BR/>Granted, they have baptized 945 people during that 4 year period and they have added 784 people by other means. But the church membership only grew by 657. It took 1729 new members for the church to grow by 657 members.<BR/><BR/>In addition those 1729 new members resulted in 326 fewer worshipers! If the church continues to grow at this rate then by the time it adds around 10,000 new members the preacher will be preaching to an empty auditorium at his "primary worship" service. Why does the pastor of this church get a place of high visibility in the Convention (as its President no less) while Dr. Yarnell warbles on about Bethehem Baptist Church, which, I would add he completely misrepresented by using a dated document from October and not the full documentation from December?<BR/><BR/><BR/>1. Hear the Word.<BR/>2. Become a Disciple of Jesus Christ.<BR/>3. Be baptized.<BR/>4. Obey all the Commands of Jesus Christ, which includes regenerate church membership.<BR/><BR/>Hmmm, let's play with this shall we?<BR/><BR/>If we look at the ACP's for many of the larger churches in this Convention, many of which are in the state convention Dr. Yarnell addressed, we find that they aren't doing too well with #4. So, while Dr. Yarnell pretends that Baptists are the only GCC's, the harsh reality is that they are, if we go by the ACP's largely failing #4. <BR/><BR/>That's the problem with 4 tiered definitions. You have to be in compliance with each one in order to be compliant with the definition.<BR/><BR/>Compare this to the Presbyterian churches here in my town, where adult members are received after a lengthy interview process, precisely because they differentiate between converted and unconverted in the church membership. Children are not counted in these churches until they are converted. Even if they were, considering the number of unregenerate children the SBC baptizes and perpetually rebaptizes in any given year, how exactly is the SBC any different? They may baptize babies, but they actually have a regenerate church membership that show up to church and does the work of ministry. I would also add that there are plenty of Presbyterian churches that baptize believers upon request. Moreover, I know Presybterian missionaries who baptize new converts on the mission field.<BR/><BR/>Baptism does not guarantee a regenerate church membership. Dr. Yarnell is making a category error and imputing that which is conceptual to that which is practical. A regenerate church membership isn't maintained by believer's baptism. It is maintained by a refined process for admission in conjunction with believers baptism. I am in a LCBF 1646 church. Needless to say, our confession is not very forgiving in this area. From our perspective, the SBC is in clear violation of the principle of a regenerate church membership precisely because of ease with which its churches accept members, and thus subject to the same criticisms that Dr. Yarnell is lobbing at non-Baptists. <BR/> <BR/><BR/>The conceptual and practical are are two separate levels. Perhaps before he complains about the speck in other brothers’ eyes, he and the Convention should consider the log in their own.GeneMBridgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10504383610477532374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-1142052784560473232006-03-10T22:53:00.000-06:002006-03-10T22:53:00.000-06:00David,Maybe I am too dense to see it, but where ar...David,<BR/><BR/>Maybe I am too dense to see it, but where are you "divergent" from the BF&M2K, as was accused?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com