tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post842420823481824796..comments2023-06-02T05:56:55.748-05:00Comments on Love Each Stone: Roadblocks on the Path to City ChurchDavid Rogershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-69076836038278436962008-06-15T23:05:00.000-05:002008-06-15T23:05:00.000-05:00I've posted link #8 in this chain blog in a post c...I've posted link #8 in this chain blog in a post called "<A HREF="http://assembling.blogspot.com/2008/06/unity-and-church-in-city.html" REL="nofollow">Unity and the Church in a City</A>".<BR/><BR/>-AlanAlan Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07452247058550736803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-27570958722488849002008-06-11T01:00:00.000-05:002008-06-11T01:00:00.000-05:00Hi David,You reminded me of other people referring...Hi David,<BR/><BR/>You reminded me of other people referring to "locality" instead of "city" in regards to the modern restoration of the city church. Logistically, some cities are too large for the ministry leaders to have meaningful working relationships with each other. Small cities by modern day standards can have a city church while large cities need to be broken up into locality churches.James Goetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02412501436355228925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-23099711598376381072008-06-02T14:28:00.000-05:002008-06-02T14:28:00.000-05:00Dave,Yes. No one ever said that "city church" will...Dave,<BR/><BR/>Yes. No one ever said that "city church" will not be messy at times. I think that is precisely one of the reasons why Paul tells us we must "make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace" (Eph. 4:3). I do think it is well worth it, though, and what our Lord wants of us, as well.David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-15049788228305958502008-06-01T10:34:00.000-05:002008-06-01T10:34:00.000-05:00In Cedar Rapids, largely as a result of the minis...In Cedar Rapids, largely as a result of the ministry of Francis Frangipane, we developed something close to the city church concept. We were one church meeting in different places. <BR/><BR/>There were a couple of problems. First, there were some who wanted to include groups in the "church of Cedar Rapids" that others of us were not comfortable with. Defining the evangelical church is hard. <BR/><BR/>Second, there were others who wanted to bring us all together a little more than some of us wanted to go. One of the churches got the "Pensacola Blessing" and wanted everyone to receive it. So, the lines of our doctrinal and denominational beliefs were sometimes blurred. <BR/><BR/>But, when I was there, I felt like I was a part of the other churches of the town. We were one church meeting in separate buildings, with a few different ideas and practices, but we were able to bless each other.Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-69342048385947403962008-05-30T22:37:00.000-05:002008-05-30T22:37:00.000-05:00Alright...my post (The Major Roadblock to a City C...Alright...my post (<A HREF="http://www.theologicalmusingsblog.com/2008/05/30/the-major-roadblock-to-a-city-church/" REL="nofollow">The Major Roadblock to a City Church</A>) is finally up. Sorry for the wait, guys.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-43481012776833735612008-05-29T17:18:00.000-05:002008-05-29T17:18:00.000-05:00David,Like any man-made expression, they can be he...David,<BR/><BR/>Like any man-made expression, they can be helpful and they can be harmful.<BR/><BR/>I've been trying to call you. Can you call me?<BR/><BR/>-AlanAlan Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07452247058550736803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-54017852375031695292008-05-29T17:11:00.000-05:002008-05-29T17:11:00.000-05:00Alan,Would you not agree that, even though "univer...Alan,<BR/><BR/>Would you not agree that, even though "universal" and "local" are not technically biblical terms in relation to "ekklesia," that they are at least useful terms in helping to explain different expressions of the One True Church?David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-38359192441118120352008-05-29T16:46:00.000-05:002008-05-29T16:46:00.000-05:00Barrett,Yes, I agree "that there are numerous coop...Barrett,<BR/><BR/>Yes, I agree "that there are numerous cooperative groups that just do not accept the 'construct' of what you believe represents the 'universal church' concept as adequately representing the N.T. useage of 'ekklesia'." <BR/><BR/>To balance that, I also believe that there are numerous cooperative groups that do not accept the construct of the 'local church' concept as adequately representing the N.T. usage of 'ekklesia'.<BR/><BR/>I think that "universal" and "local" are man-made distinctions when applied to the church.<BR/><BR/>-AlanAlan Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07452247058550736803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-66597410370175808462008-05-29T13:18:00.000-05:002008-05-29T13:18:00.000-05:00Paul,Wonderful! I hope you are able to do so. I th...Paul,<BR/><BR/>Wonderful! I hope you are able to do so. I think that would be a great contribution to the discussion. As I understand the "rules," once Steve has his post up, you will need to leave a comment over at his blog indicating your intention to receive the baton, and leave a link to your post when it is ready.David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-40057299021110612492008-05-29T12:45:00.000-05:002008-05-29T12:45:00.000-05:00David, great post. I think Alan has a great idea....David, great post. I think Alan has a great idea. I think I might want to jump in at some point and share where we are at in State College with the "City Church" concept, although if I had to sum it up in one sentence, it would be: We have a long way to go.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10390212659528931522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-60158098265752177002008-05-29T07:17:00.000-05:002008-05-29T07:17:00.000-05:00Steve,Fantastic! I look forward to your contributi...Steve,<BR/><BR/>Fantastic! I look forward to your contribution.David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-33635932232983099872008-05-29T06:57:00.000-05:002008-05-29T06:57:00.000-05:00Barrett,As I have written previously about it else...Barrett,<BR/><BR/>As I have written previously about it elsewhere, I left off much of the exegetical foundation for the idea of the "city church" on this post. I talk a bit more about this on the <A HREF="http://www.sbcimpact.net/2008/05/07/the-one-true-church/" REL="nofollow">One True Church</A> post over at sbcIMPACT!<BR/><BR/>In any case, I believe it is significant that the "ekklesia" that God is building is not only those who physically assemble with each other here and now on the earth. It is a spiritual reality, and a massive group of people, who will one day assemble around the throne of the Lamb. In the meantime, the same "ekklesia" that is presently "under construction" finds different expressions here on earth, including "house churches," "local congregations," and the "city church." <BR/><BR/>It is also important to take into consideration the fact that NT language almost always refers to the "church" (singular) of or in a particular city. Yet, at the same time, it would appear there were also individual "house churches" (plural) within a given city.David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-49519610129628738892008-05-29T06:43:00.000-05:002008-05-29T06:43:00.000-05:00Alan,I agree that the bottom-line problem is not "...Alan,<BR/><BR/>I agree that the bottom-line problem is not "simple," "organic," or "house church" structure and practice. It is, as you state, isolationism. And, I believe many "house church" groups are actually "ahead of the curve" in thinking and striving to put into practice the "city church." <BR/><BR/>However, if the foundational motivation behind this emphasis is more pragmatic, and viewed as a "plank" in the "house church platform," and not a heartfelt concern for the unity of the Body of Christ, I believe this "platform" is shaky, and will eventually crumble. And, possibly even do more harm than good for the cause of unity, just like so many failed "experiments in unity" throughout the history of the church.<BR/><BR/>I have picked up on this attitude among some "house church" advocates and church planters when they talk about the need to protect new converts from the "contaminated DNA" of the traditional or institutional church.David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-65042033146629035432008-05-29T06:39:00.000-05:002008-05-29T06:39:00.000-05:00I've got some thoughts in response that I'd like t...I've got some thoughts in response that I'd like to formulate as the next link in the chain, so I'll take the baton for link #4. Hopefully by tonight, but I'll let you all know when.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-20019828308295197012008-05-28T23:22:00.000-05:002008-05-28T23:22:00.000-05:00David,Several observations.1. Many would agree wit...David,<BR/>Several observations.<BR/>1. Many would agree with your concept of "the Body of Christ" in the Tallahassee, Florida area. I have a wonderful relationship with these folks in regular prayer meetings and our desire to see an "Awakening" in this FL Capitol. But, I also have a much different take on this issue.... I believe there has become an amalgamation of N.T. Biblical terms that are actually "extrabiblical".... for instance most of my friends equate the term "church" as used in the N.T. with the body of Christ, when I believe thorough exigetical study indicates that a more accurate equivalent would be "Kingdom" ("Basile"). Certainly the frequency of occurance in the N.T. is local visible assembly at a specific location..... and that was the way "ekklesia" was used in the Septuagent.<BR/>2. Alan Knox said he thinks, in reference to roadblock #4 that it reflects "isolationist and independent groups". I personally disagree, and I believe he would have to admit that there are numerous cooperative groups that just do not accept the "construct" of what I believe represents the "universal church" concept as adequately representing the N.T. useage of "ekklesia". In fact, this used to be the major demarcation between "free church" groups and the more liturgical and centrally focused polity of groups like, Anglican, R. Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Methodists, et.al.<BR/>....... Well, I've exhuasted my time limit, have an early ministry visit in our local hospital... must go....Blessings on your blog efforts.... always enjoy the give and take.......<BR/>Prayerfully supporting you folks on IMB mission fields and other missionaries from some of those groups I mentioned... Barrett M. LamppAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-56926328460881311852008-05-28T21:53:00.000-05:002008-05-28T21:53:00.000-05:00David,Thank you for continuing our discussion on t...David,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for continuing our discussion on this topic. I want some time to think through your "roadblocks" a little more. But, there's one thing that I noticed: I don't think roadblock #4 has to do with simple, organic, or house church. Instead, I think it has to do with isolationist and independent groups - whether they are simple, organic, house, or traditional brick-and-mortar churches. I've run across isolationist versions of all types of churches. However, I do agree that the attitude of roadblock #4 is a roadblock to recognizing the church in a city.<BR/><BR/>-AlanAlan Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07452247058550736803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22575956.post-42084811467293314832008-05-28T18:56:00.000-05:002008-05-28T18:56:00.000-05:00Good thoughts on the roadblocks and thanks for sha...Good thoughts on the roadblocks and thanks for sharing from different perspectives.Thoughts From Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11658741692973255432noreply@blogger.com